Curse

Nevin · Jul 13, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Before reading please take note to post only mature responses with some sort of constructive critism behind them and for the love of god... No WoW references.

Jumping

Jumping is something that helps enhance the ability to freely roam in any game. Guild Wars is quite restricting with out it (Note, its not unbarable. But it would be nice). I'm not talking about jumping over players (More on that later), but for the most part the ability to jump to a lower elevation or over an obstacle that has you stuck. There would be penalties from jumping too high, basically restricting any MAJOR exploitation by runners. So with out further adieu heres my idea. (Mind you I am not an expert, these calculations could use adjustments. Feel free to comment on them and I will change as seen fit.)

Drops Penalties(using Ft. for simplicity)..
0-8 Ft. - No penalty.
8-12 Ft. -Knocked down for 1 second, Crippled 5 seconds.
12-16 Ft. - Knocked down for 2 seconds, Crippled 10 seconds.
16-20 Ft. - 100 damage, Knocked down for 2 seconds, Crippled and Bleeding 15 seconds.
21+ Ft. - Fatal.

Jumping Distance/Height (using Ft. for simplicity)
Standing - 2 Ft. up (In air roughly... 1 second)
While in Movement - 2 Ft. up + 5 Ft. across (In air roughly.. 2.3 seconds)

Mechanics
You cannot jump while in an Outpost/Town/City, Only while during a mission. (To prevent people from looking like monkies in town.) You cannot attack or cast while jumping. You may enter a stance while jumping. You can be attacked by ranged attacks while jumping. If attacked by melee within the first 1/4 second of "taking off" you are knocked down for 1 second.

The exception for the majority of these rules will be the Assassin. Why the Assassin? Well they need it more then you think. This will not over power them that much, since it does not have that much of a benefit. But while during battle it is essential for Assassins to get out if being ganked or trapped. This would allow them to avoid being body blocked and give them the potential to jump over another player. Plus it fits in with them being acrobatic... Here are their special rules.

Jumping Distance/Height for Assassins(using Ft. for simplicity)
Standing - 3 Ft. up (In air roughly.. 1.5 seconds)
While in Movement- 5 Ft. up + 9 Ft. across (In air roughly.. 3 seconds)

Designated Climbing

A simple concept I schemed up in case of getting stuck, also climbing would help create new templates in missions. Designated climbing would simply be the ability to climb up designated objects. You cannot attack or cast while jumping. You may enter a stance while climbing. You can be attacked by ranged attacks while climbing. If attacked by melee within the first 1/4 second of "climbing up" you are knocked down for 1 second. What kind of objects would we be able to climb?

Jungle = Vine Walls
Urban = Ladders
Desert = Salt rock ledges
Snow = Stone ledges

You get the jist of it. Mainly these installments are for getting out of ditches you jump into. Although as you can imagine, Anet would be able to think of some neat missions that involve climbing and what not. I am thinking of intruducing a proposition about "Cliffhanging" but I feel thats a little too extreme for Guild Wars.

Animation

To start this off I'll describe the animation for each of the profession's jumps. (Although that is not the main point of this section) I'd like to touch up on some of the professions animations afterwards. But first heres the jump descriptions.

While standing
The current Jump animation of each profession will apply to this. Since its not over a distance.

While in Movement
Elemantist/Mesmer - A simple lunge foward, nothing special.
Ritualist/Necromancer - More sluggish and wayward.
Warrior - Squating then leaping.
Monk - Slightly more graceful then a lunge.
Assassin - A foward wheel. Knees tucked in spinning.
Ranger - A balanced lunge with arms slightly spread.

Now for the real purpose I originally had in mind. This is to discuss the lack of good weapon skill animations for the Warrior and Ranger Skills I would like to adress are.

Skills
{E}Earth Shaker
Final Thrust
{E}Hundred Blades
Sun and Moon Slash
{E} Barrage

Most of these skills simply have no specification and look just like any other skill that the profession has. Why can't Earth Shaker be more dramatic and have the shake effect of Earth Quake? Hundred Blades simply does no justice for its name, and Final Thrust doesn't look very final at all. Sun and Moon Slash has a very creative name and could use a creative animation. Barrage is the most needing in my opinion... Wouldn't it make sense to hold the bow horizantly? The arrows aren't going in a vertical pattern.

floppinghog · Jul 13, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

/signed /signed /signed... for all

i am equally upset with those skills's animations... it really would be awesome for way more cool effects.

Edit: I'd like to point out a great effect i've found in my avatar = furious axe, factions skill. well what u see there is nearly instantly gone, once u see it. cause one slash is pretty fast.

it shouldnt cause problems for a 56k'er or anything, cause all effects are on your harddrive, the information is the same. so i dont see an excuse for Anet other than, well, the game is still new as far as i'm concerned. 2nd chapter just got out fairly bit ago, chapter 3 is holding all my hopes --- can't wait! heck, i can't wait for chapter 4.

Lafayette · Jul 13, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I've never found GW restrictive without jumping; to me, it's a game which doesn't need it. There have been small little cliffs which often get in the way, but either I can run around them in a few seconds or there's nothing on the other side of any value anyhow. That said, I don't think the addition of jumping would hurt much (if at all) and certainly wouldn't complain if implemented.

I do have a few comments, though.

Those drop penalties listed seem somewhat severe. Six feet is not a great height, and especially not, I would imagine, for such heroes as GW contains. We can kill the baddest enemies Tyria and Cantha throw at us but can't fall six feet without getting hurt? The knockdown idea I do like, but both knockdowns and conditions of such duration are possibly too punishing. If I may suggest a little revision:
0-8 Ft. - no penalty.
8-12 Ft. - knocked down for 1 second, crippled 5 seconds.
12-16 Ft. - knocked down for 2 seconds, crippled 10 seconds.
16-20 Ft. - 100 damage, knocked down for 2 seconds, crippled and bleeding 15 seconds.
21+ Ft. - fatal.
Drops of too great a height would still hurt with those penalties listed. Though on second thought, those costs jump up a bit high at the end. Maybe spread out the damage a bit more evenly across the last four categories, with the final being either 400-500 damage or fatal?

Is there a 'recharge' on jumping? Or is it possible to jump continuously? Like: run and jump, land, continue running and jump again a second later. Etc.. Or are you thinking of, say, one jump maximum every five (ten? fifteen?) seconds?

One of the advantages of being an assassin is their shadow-stepping abilities. What you seem to be proposing for that class is a non-costly, non-skill related alternative to shadow-stepping which, if there is no recharge, effectively circumvents many of the assassin skills which get them out of such sticky situations. Were jumping to be implemented, I would want to see the assassins have the same limitations as other classes: Not able to jump over enemies, but just over small obstacles. They do have shadow-stepping skills for more survival and tactical requirements. If they are body blocked, Recall, Viper's Defense and others are recommended.

This also brings to the fore some possible problems in getting stuck. For example, if I jumped down an eight foot-high cliff (using your measurements), but landed in a valley or ditch and there was no way back out, I would be unable to jump out because the height is too much for my jumping ability (of 2 ft. to 5 ft.). Of course, to be able to jump as high as you can fall isn't realistic, but getting stuck in this way seems a very possible situation - and caveat.

And as a last thought, there would be 'boundaries' to where players can go in the environment, right? Say, you can get over small obstacles in the middle of a map but cannot go further past an area's edges than one could without jumping. I'm sure it's an obvious question, but I had to ask.

Nevin · Jul 13, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafayette

And as a last thought, there would be 'boundaries' to where players can go in the environment, right? Say, you can get over small obstacles in the middle of a map but cannot go further past an area's edges than one could without jumping. I'm sure it's an obvious question, but I had to ask.

When was the last time you've ever ran into an invicible wall in Guild Wars? They've already made it fool proof to be able to get out of their zones (They all have some kind of ledge) Anyways, jumping isn't very extreme and certainly wouldn't get you over a boundry ledge.

unholy guardian · Jul 13, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Hmm i do like these ideas. The animations included. At first when you were mentioning the jump idea i thought it was going to be effected by the z axies problem thing. This idea though seems to make sense and would add more to guildwars, like you mentioned in some missions. So i like the idea.

lyra_song · Jul 13, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Human beings can survive very high jumps....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jquXcwooV6A

i dont know if your height settings are enough ^^;

unholy guardian · Jul 13, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Human beings can survive very high jumps....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jquXcwooV6A

i dont know if your height settings are enough ^^;

i forgot all about those people that do that. I have seen that before and i gotta say that be a cool thing to be able to do, but if you mess up your kinda dead

lyra_song · Jul 13, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholy guardian

i forgot all about those people that do that. I have seen that before and i gotta say that be a cool thing to be able to do, but if you mess up your kinda dead

<.< i can do about 10-12 feet myself....if im wearing sneakers o.o

I think jumping in game would be cool. But not a "floaty" kinda jump thats in WoW.

I like how the /jump emote is already. They actually build up for it.

Nevin · Jul 13, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

The only problem I have with that Lyra, is that; Thats an exception. Those people didn't just one day decide they can start jumping around and do acrobatics. They started small and trained to get more resistant. That would take more complication to implent into GW.

Kaguya · Jul 13, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Those people didn't just one day decide they can start jumping around and do acrobatics. They started small and trained to get more resistant. That would take more complication to implent into GW.

They aren't wearing heavy armor, items and gear in their hands, and their clothing doesn't have blades, spikes and such either.

lyra_song · Jul 13, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

They aren't wearing heavy armor, items and gear in their hands, and their clothing doesn't have blades, spikes and such either.

Dont forget the 3-4 other armors sets in their pockets ;D

Gorebrex · Jul 13, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Isnt all that metal armor heavy? Even if youre not a warrior, youd still likely twist/sprain/break an ankle or something from a fairly high jump like 25 feet or so.

lyra_song · Jul 13, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorebrex

Isnt all that metal armor heavy? Even if youre not a warrior, youd still likely twist/sprain/break an ankle or something from a fairly high jump like 25 feet or so.

I forgot who it was...but they suggested that assassins jump the highest...and warriors jump the lowest ^^

Ristaron · Jul 13, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I would like to see Assassins able to do that jumping around stuff. True they can just 'zOMG SHADOWSTEP' where they want, but it would be far more interesting to see your party assassin scale a wall and kill an enemy healer before recalling back down.
Then the party can range-kill the rest of them.

That is obviously a way's off, though, and for the moment I'm satisfied with GW.

/jump

TheLordOfBlah · Jul 13, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I think theyre all god ideas except for the damage taken. Instead of a constant ammount of 100, It should be a percentage of the health like 33% or something like that. 100 damage to a warrior with vigor runes and uber armor is nothing, but to a spellcaster with superior runes and less armor, its a lot more.

I've been fine with the way it is without it however wouldnt mind having this. Doubt it'll get put it.

quanzong · Jul 13, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

kinda be monkeyish I think.

/jump lets you jump, however wont save ya from a griffon sweep

/notsigned

Nevin · Jul 14, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

kinda be monkeyish I think.

/jump lets you jump, however wont save ya from a griffon sweep

/notsigned

Well that I could see if it were in a civil area.. But they're in the wilderness, why would it be at all monkeyish.

actionjack · Jul 14, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I think it would add alot to the feeling of freedome of movement. Also could try to put Swiming in there as well.

However, I can't not sign, because I think to get it to work, the Dev would have to rework the entire engine... which is least to say.. "troublesome".
(some skill might need rework too... like Traps.. and Knockdown)

Also Lafayette... your avt better be a younger you.. or your daught.. else it is very very freaky......

bigwig · Jul 14, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

i'm so tired of hearing people request jumping. it would do nothing for guild wars.

Kool Pajamas · Jul 14, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

I think this would be a good idea for future chapters. It could open up tons of strategies in the future.